Yazid bin harun on whoever takes الرحمن على العرش استوى to mean something other than what comes to the heart is a jahmi
Translation: Yazeed Ibn Hārūn (d.206AH) said: Whoever thinks that ‘Al Rahmaan istawā above the Throne’ is upon (a meaning) other than what comes to the heart of the general masses then he is a jahmī.
Sahih – This is also mentioned in Kitab As-Sunnah By ‘Abdullah, Page 47 Masā’il Al-Imam Ahmad By Abū Dāwūd As-Sijistānī, Page 360 Al-Ibānah Al-Kubrā by Ibn Battah, Vol 7, Pages 164-5
Khalq Afal Al-Ibād by Imam Al Bukhari (2/37)
Muhammad bin Mus’ab al-Aabid (d. 228H) says whoever claims allah doesn’t speak, whoever says he will not be seen in the akhirah he doesn’t know who allah ﷻ is. And allah ﷻ is above the seven heavens nor as the heretics say
Translation: Muhammad ibn Makhlad narrated to us.
Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn ʿUmar ibn al-Hakam Abu al-Hasan ibn al-ʿAttar narrated to us. He said: I heard Muhammad ibn Musʿab al-ʿAbid (d. 228 AH) say: “Whoever claims that You do not speak and that You will not be seen in the afterlife, then he is a kafir in Your face and does not know You. I bear witness that You are above the Throne, above seven heavens, not like what Your enemies the zanadiqah say.”
Footenote: Muhammad ibn Musʿab Abu Jaʿfar al-Duʿaʾ was one of the known ʿubbad and one of the known qurraʾ. Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal (d. 241 AH) praised him and described him with sunnah. Abu al-Hasan al-ʿAttar narrated from him. He was thiqqah, memorising the Book of Allah. He died in the year 228 AH. Tārīkh Baghdād 3/279
Kitab As Sifaat By Imam Ad Daraqutni (d. 385AH) Pg 72-73
Bishr ibn ’Umar (d.207AH) said: I heard more than one of the mufasireen say, ‘The Most Merciful ascended over the Throne’ [Ta-Ha: 5] means He rose above it. And I also heard more than one of the Mufassirīn say it means Irtafa’ (Elevated)
Wahb ibn Jarir(d.206AH) said: The Jahmiyyah, the heretics, only intend to deny that He is established on the Throne.
Abū Bakr b. ʿAyyāsh, Ibn Sālim al-Ḥannāṭ al-Kūfī (d. 193/809) said whoever claims that the Quran is created, may the curse of Allah be upon him; he is a disbeliever and a zindeeq. Do not associate with them. & Sufyan Al-Thawri (97AH-161AH) said the same.
Hammad ibn Zaid (d.179AH) said The Quran is the speech of Allah and the jahmiyyah that there is no deity in the heavens.(fi samaa, above the heavens)
Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak [d.181] said: He is above (استوى) the Throne. He was asked: How do you know our Lord? He replied: Above His heavens, upon the arsh.
Abu al-Samh asked Imam Malik (d.179AH) and he said, ‘O Abu Abdullah, will Allah be seen on the Day of Resurrection?’ So he said, ‘Yes, Allah, the Almighty, says: “Faces on that day will be radiant, gazing at their Lord”, and He says to others: “No! Indeed, they [those who did wrong] will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day.”
Yahya bin Ma’in (d.233AH) and Fudayl bin Iyad (d.187AH) quoted jahmiyyah saying “i disbelieve in a lord that descends” and they both responded by saying “i believe in a lord that does what he wills”
Translation: 775 – Abū Muḥammad al-Balkhī narrated that Al-Fuḍayl ibn ʿIyāḍ (d. 187 AH) said: If the Jahmī says to you: “I disbelieve in a Lord who descends (moves away) [Bukhārī mentioned it in Khalq Afʿāl al-ʿIbād 127-129, and in it: ‘moves away’ instead of ‘descends’ here.], then say: “I believe in a Lord who does what He wants.”
776 – Aḥmad ibn ʿAlī al-Abbār (d. 290 AH) told us, he said: I heard Yaḥyā ibn Maʿīn (d. 233 AH) say: If you hear the Jahmī say: “I disbelieve in a Lord who descends,” then say: “I believe in a Lord who does what He wants.”
Sharh Usool Al I’tiqaad By Imam Al Lalaka’ee Pg 452-453
Sulaymaan at-Taymee (d. 143H): If I was asked ‘Where is Allah?’ I Would Say Above The Heaven.
Translation: 114 – From Ṣadaqah, he said: I heard Sulaymān al-Taymī (d. 143 AH) say: If I were asked, “Where is Allah?” I would say, “In the sky.” [Sulaymān was one of the imams of Ahl al-Baṣrah in knowledge and deeds.]
Imam Al-Lalaka’re reported this also (2/92). Sadaqah, he is Ibn al-Muntasir, Abu Shu’bah ash-Sha’baanee, Abu Zur’ah said: “The is no harm in him” all of its men (the narrators) are trustworthy, and al-Bukhaaree narrated it in “mu’allaq” form in “Afaal ul-‘Ibaad” (Pg 71)
Mukhtasar al-‘Uluw – by Ad-Dhahabi, summarized by Al Albani Pg 122
Sa’eed bin Aamir Ad-Dab’i (d. 208 H.), one of Imam Bukhari’s teachers, said: The Jahmiyyah have said worse than the Jews and Christians, the Jews, Christians agree that Allah is over the Throne, and the Jahmiyyah said: There is nothing over the Throne.
Bishr Bin Al-Sarriyy asked Hammād Bin Zayd (d.179H): Ō Abā Ismā’īl, the hadith that has come, ‘Allah descends to the lowest heaven does He move from place to place?
Hammad then replied, ”He is in his place (Makan), and he draws near to his creation how he wills’
Mujahid ibn Jabr (104AH) said in between the seven heavens and the throne are seventy thousand veils… and Musa عليه السلام did not stop approaching until there was only one veil between him and Allah. veil, then, when he saw his MAKAN (place).
Translation: 855 – Ibn Abī Najīḥ narrated from Mujāhid ibn Jabr (d. 104 AH) “And We brought him near in private conversation” [Maryam: 52]. He said: Between the seventh sky and the Throne, there are seventy thousand veils—a veil of light, a veil of darkness, a veil of light, and a veil of darkness. Mūsā was brought closer until there was only one veil between him and it. When he saw his place and heard the sound of the pen, he said: “My Lord, show me so I may look at You,” meaning, and Allah knows best, that he was brought close to the Throne until there was only one veil between Mūsā and the Throne.
Footenote: Its chain is authentic, and all its narrators are trustworthy
Kitab Asma Wa Sifaat By Al Bayhaqi (2/294)
Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak (d.181AH) was asked “O Abu Abdur-Rahman how does He descend? Isn’t that place empty of Him?” So, Abdullah said: “He descends as He wills.
Translation: Muḥammad ibn Salām (d. 227 AH) asked ʿAbdullāh ibn al-Mubārak (d. 181 AH) about the descent on the night of the middle of Shaʿbān. So ʿAbdullāh said: “O weak one, He descends every night.” Then a man said to him: “O Abū ʿAbd al-Raḥmān, how does He descend? Does that place not become empty of Him?” So ʿAbdullāh said: “He descends as He wills.” And in another narration of this story: ʿAbdullāh ibn al-Mubārak said to the man: “When a report comes to you from the Messenger of Allah ﷺ, then submit to it.”
Aqidatu Salaf wa As-hab ul-Hadith By Imam As-Sabuni (d. 449AH) Pg 196
Imam ash-shafi’i (d.206AH) said whoever says our lafdh of the quran is created is a kaffir
Translation: Al-Husayn ibn Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Tabari informed us, saying: I heard Ahmad ibn Yusuf al-Shalanji say: I heard Abu Abdullah al-Husayn ibn Ali al-Qattan say: I heard Ali ibn al-Husayn ibn al-Junayd say: I heard Al-Rabi’ say: I heard Al-Shafi’i say: Whoever says My lafdh (utterance) of the Quran is created, then he is a Jahmi. And this statement was also narrated from Abu Zur’ah and Ali ibn Khushram.
Sharh Usool Al Itiqaad By Imam Al Lalaka’ee Pg 354
ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz al-Mājishūn (d.164AH) also said in response to the negation of the attributes: This speech is a demolition without construction, and an attribute without a meaning”
Ad Dhahabi mentions how scholars like Abu Ishaq al-Sabi’i(d.127Ah), al-Thawri (d.161AH) al-A’mash (d.148AH), Israel, Abd al-Rahman ibn Mahdi (d.198AH), Abu Ahmad al-Zubayri (d.233AH) Waki’ (d.247AH) Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d.241AH) affirmed juloos so who are we to deny it.
Translation: 99 – And it was also recorded by Abū ʿAbd al-Raḥmān ʿAbdullāh ibn Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal (d. 290 AH) in Kitāb al-Sunnah wa al-Radd ʿalā al-Jahmiyyah, from his father Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal (d. 241 AH), from ʿAbd al-Raḥmān ibn Mahdī (d. 198 AH), from Sufyān al-Thawrī (d. 161 AH), from Abū Isḥāq al-Sabīʿī (d. 127 AH), from ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah, from ʿUmar (may Allah be pleased with him), and his wording is: “When the Lord sits on the throne, a creaking sound is heard, like the creaking of a new saddle.”
And it was also narrated from Wakiʿ ibn Jarrah (d. 197 AH) with the narration of Isrāʾīl (d. 160 AH), from Abū Isḥāq, from ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah, from ʿUmar:”When the Lord sits on the throne,” a man whose name my father mentioned to Wakiʿ shivered, so Wakiʿ became angry and said: “We met al-Aʿmash (d. 148 AH) and Sufyān narrating these hadiths, and they did not reject them.”
1385 – I say: This hadith is authentic according to a group of hadith narrators. It was recorded by al-Ḍiyāʾ al-Maqdisī (d. 643 AH) in his Ṣaḥīḥ, and it meets the conditions of Ibn Ḥibbān (d. 354 AH), but I do not know if he recorded it or not. For he holds that when a reliable memoriser narrates from an unknown man who has not been criticised, then the chain is authentic.
So if these imams: Abū Isḥāq al-Sabīʿī, Sufyān al-Thawrī, al-Aʿmash, Isrāʾīl, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān ibn Mahdī, Abū Aḥmad al-Zubayrī, Wakiʿ, Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal, and others—whose names and numbers are too many to mention—who are the lamps of guidance and lights in darkness, have accepted this hadith, narrated it, did not reject it, and did not criticise its chain, then who are we to reject it and act clever over them? Rather, we believe in it and leave its knowledge to Allah, the Mighty and Majestic.
[This hadith attributed to Umar Ibn Al Khattab is weak because Abdullāh ibn Khalifah is a unknown narrator, however the point Imam Ad Dhahabi makes is clear, that some imams from the salaf accepted it so who are we to reject it]
Kitab Al Arsh By Imam Ad Dhahabi (2/154-156)
Abd al-ʿAzīz al-Kinānī (Imām al-Shāfiʿī’s student) (d.231AH) argued against interpreting al-istiwāʾ (rising) as al-istīlāʾ (subjugating) on the basis that Allāh’s rising over the Throne was done after the creation of the heavens. His subjugation of the Throne, however, was always present.
Translation: Imam ʿAbd al-ʿAziz ibn Yahya al-Kinani (d. 240 AH), the companion of al-Shafiʿi, may Allah have mercy on both of them, has a book in refuting the Jahmiyyah. He said in it regarding what the Jahmiyyah denied and it was Allah’s saying: “The Most Merciful rose above the Throne” [al-Rahman: 5]. The Jahmiyyah claimed that the meaning of “istawa” is “took control,” based on the saying of the Arabs, “So and so ‘istawa’ over Egypt,” meaning “he took control over it.”
He said: It is said to him: “Is there any creation of Allah upon which you remain for a period and are not in authority over it?” If he says: “No,” it is said to him: “Whoever claims this is a disbeliever.”
It is then said to him: “It follows that you must say that the Throne, which you remain upon for a period, is something over which Allah has no authority.” This is because He, may He be Glorified, informed that He created the Throne before the creation of the heavens and the earth and then established Himself upon it after creating them. Thus, it is necessary for you to say that during the period when He was upon the Throne before the creation of the heavens and the earth, Allah was not in authority over it, which is false.
Ijtimaa Al Juyoosh By Ibn Al Qayyim Pg 219-220
Ibn Abbas (d.68AH) Affirming that Allah ﷻ places his feet on the kursi.
Translation: Bunadar, Muhammad bin Bashar narrated to us, he said: Abu ‘Asim, narrated to us, he said Sufyan narrated to us, from ‘Ammar, who is Al-Duhni, from Muslim Al-Bateen, from Sa’eed bin Jubayr, from Ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them both), who said: Al-Kursi (the Footstool) is the place of the feet, and the Al-‘Arsh (the Throne) its magnitude cannot be estimated.
Footnote: Al-Hakim recorded it (2/282) in his Tafseer from Abu ‘Asim with this chain as a mawqoof (a report attributed to a Companion, not the Prophet) on Ibn ‘Abbas, and he said: “This is a Sahih (authentic) hadith, according to the conditions of Al-Sheikhain (Al-Bukhari and Muslim), but they did not include it, and Al-Dhahabi agreed with him.” And Al-Dhahabi recorded it in Al-‘Uluww (p. 102), likewise as mawqoof on Ibn ‘Abbas, and he said: “Its narrators are trustworthy. And Al-Daraqutni recorded it in his book Al-Sifaat (49), likewise from Abu ‘Asim with this chain, and he said: “Shujaa’ raised it (to the Prophet). Shujaa’ is Shujaa’ bin Makhlad Al-Fallas, who is Sadooq (truthful), Abu Al-Fadl Al-Baghawi, but he made a mistake in one hadith where he raised it, while it is mawqoof. Therefore, Al-‘Aqeeli mentioned him because of this in Al-Du’afaa (the book of weak narrators).
Kitab At Tawheed by Ibn Khuzaymah Page 248
Ibn Furaq’s bad cope with this athar as he says we don’t know whose feet it’s talking about. A Major Ashari scholar here is proving the statement by Ibn Taymiyyah where he says the falasifa make claims about Allah that not even weak minded people would make.
Translation: And know that it has been narrated from Ibn ‘Abbās regarding the interpretation of the Kursī (Footstool) two things. One of them is that the meaning of the Kursī is ‘Ilm (knowledge), and that its meaning is: ‘His knowledge encompasses the heavens and the earth.’ It has also been narrated from him that the Kursī is the place for the two feet. But he did not say ‘the place for the feet of whom!’ Thus, it is possible that it is the place for the feet of some of His creation, such as the angels or others, since he did not say it is the place for the feet of Allah, mighty and glorious is His mention.
Mushkil Al Hadith by Ibn Furaq Page 228
Ali bin Asim & Wahb ibn Jarir mention how the jahmiyyah can’t affirm allah is above the heavens just like the asharis and maturidis.
Translation: ‘Alī Ibn ‘Asim (d.201AH) said: Beware of al-Marīsī and his companions, for their speech leads to heresy. I spoke with their teacher, Jahm, and he could not affirm to me that there is a God above (fi al-samā).
Khalq Af al al-Ibād by Imam Al Bukhari Pg 19
Translation: Wahab ibn Jarir [d.206H] said: “Beware of the views of Jahm; for they try to say that there is nothing above the heavens, and that is nothing but the revelation of Iblis, and it’s nothing but kufr.”
Kitab Al-‘Uluw by Imam Ad Dhahabi Pg 159
